Northwest now is supported in part by viewers like you.

Thank you.

A Republican hasn't sat in the governor's office since 1984, but this time around, those who still identify as Republicans have Dave Reichert carrying the banner against Attorney General and Democratic heir apparent Bob Ferguson.

Ken Reichert put an end to one party rule in Washington state.

That's the big question facing voters next on northwest.

Now.

You.

Washington Republicans are in such disarray after the mega coup, they didn't even find a viable candidate in the 2020 election cycle.

And even this year, the party machine endorsed a candidate with no pathway to victory.

Despite all that, former King County Sheriff and eighth District Congressman Dave Reichert emerged from the primary to take on Attorney General Bob Ferguson.

Reichert is best known for his pursuit of the green River killer, two terms as King County Sheriff, and a seven term run as the congressman representing Washington's eighth congressional district.

They.

Riker, thanks so much for joining us here on northwest now.

You know, Bob Ferguson has come out and said is he he is going to be the tough on crime governor.

And I'm going to say, you know something?

Let's let's, take him at his word and, you say, no, we can't take him at his word.

Fair enough.

Conversely, you say you're not going to allow your personal beliefs to interfere with a woman's right to choose.

Bob Ferguson says no, let's not take him at his word.

So this is a chance to set the record straight on this.

If if we're going to take his word, he's tough on crime.

We need to take your word that you're going to be, not impacting a woman's right to choose.

Talk a little bit about that and set the record straight.

Yeah.

Well, I think, first of all, you have to look at a person's, past performance and past comments.

And, I have a, a reputation for being honest with people.

I think you can go back, throughout my entire career and and really, even some of the most, liberal liberally written articles I'm described as, what you see is what you get kind of a person.

So, I think that's first and foremost, and that people should be looking at and, you know, Bob's record is, is one of, being sort of misleading and deceitful and, we can only point to he he also he supported the idea that the gas tax was only going to cost us pennies.

He instructed the, Puget Sound natural gas not to include the cost, increase that related to the gas tax.

Hiding that from voters.

He, he he didn't provide you with held 11,000 pages of evidence in a case involving a developmentally disabled woman.

He didn't tell the, the supporters, of the initiatives that there was a lawsuit filed to stop the, the initiatives from being on the ballot.

They didn't know until the day it was being, held in court in front of the judge.

So I could go.

I could go on and on and on with with.

He's, he's telling, an untruth as it relates to, my position on teachers.

That's a that's a good segue into the next thing I wanted to ask you about.

You know, there's a there's an ad that claims you said teachers are overpaid.

I don't think we should pass that.

I seriously doubt that anybody with any kind of a political ambition in the state would, would say something that with.

With that said, though, I think the underlying question that I'd like you to hit is there's a pot of money at the top of the pyramid, and at the bottom of the pyramid are a bunch of students.

Is enough money making it through the state bureaucracy, through central office hiring, and through teachers that picked up a lot of a lot of the dollars coming out of McCleary.

McCleary.

Are enough of those revenues flowing down to students, and if not, how do we change that?

Yeah, I think that's the question that everybody's asking.

And I think that from people I'm talking to both in and outside, of the of the current government, and the current, educational system, they're saying that there's enough money.

It's just not being spent correctly.

It's not being applied.

And, you know, as far as to our students in the in the needs of the students in the schools.

So, my comments were, very specific to we are the fourth highest in the nation as a relates to teachers pay.

That's that's all I've said, is that we were one of the highest states in the, in the country as far as teachers pay.

He extrapolated from that and has said that Dave Reichert wants to or wants to cut teachers pay.

Absolutely untrue.

What I said was, and related to your question, is that we need to examine the education budget to see exactly where the money is going and where we can really apply funds.

People look back years ago, when we legalized the, a lottery in this state.

That lottery money was supposed to all go to education.

And, what I've been told is back that far, it started being siphoned off into the general fund.

My suspicion is that a lot of the education dollars today are being siphoned off into the general fund for special projects.

A big problem with that is that the lotteries were oversold.

They were never going to produce the kind of revenue required to make a substantial impact on student learning.

And I think I think it's less about those moneys being diverted to the fact that there were never really going to be there in any kind of substantial number, to begin with.

And it was a little bit of a red herring in terms of how they were sold to the public.

Another.

Well, another, but but another, another, a comment to to the point that I just made that you just made, is, is there we go.

Continual continual deception.

So, if if it's a red herring, then why were we told, you know, this was going to make a difference in the education system, when in reality it doesn't.

If Washingtonians want change, they've.

Why don't they vote for it?

And how does a governorship look for you?

If you're kind of a guy standing alone in the executive branch with a legislature that's in the opposition party?

Are you basically just a roadblock at that point?

Do you turn around and do something kind of maybe slightly revolutionary, like trying to run a bunch of statewide ballot issues as the, you know, using your bully pulpit as the governor?

I mean, how do you govern in that kind of a situation?

Well, first, first of all, in the first part of your question is, I think we haven't had a candidate, from the Republican Party that's, been one that could be attractive to moderate voters in the state.

And I'm known to be a moderate.

I'm known to be a centrist.

That's how I operated in Congress.

I'm known to be a person who solves problem by facts, by looking at facts.

I'm not an ideologist.

I think that's clear to people.

I don't make decisions based on ideology.

And that's what's taken us to the far, far, left, and just basing our decisions on left wing ideology.

I want to be in the center.

I want to make decisions based on fact.

As far as trying to, how we run a government.

Wouldn't it be great to have a balanced approach to government and let's start out with a we know we're going to have a Democrat House where we know we're going to have a Democrat Senate.

I mean, this can't be scary to people to have a Republican governor who only has the power to veto.

And, and there is no bizarre or outlandish, legislation that's going to be passed by our Democrat legislation.

There's an opportunity here for us to communicate with each other and actually cooperate.

We could probably set the standard for people across the country and and especially in the state looking at, hey, look, Republican governors working, actually working with a Democrat legislative body.

Speaking of things that you might not sign.

You know, do you believe that a state wide income tax continues to be a threat in Washington state under under a single party rule?

And did I hear you correctly and correct me if I'm wrong, but in the debate the other day, say no new taxes.

Basically take a no new taxes pledge.

I think that, yes, I think we have to know new tax bills.

I think we have to take that stand initially so that we kind of get our footing and our bearing is, okay, where are we?

How are really how how much are we paying tax people feel the pressure of tax after tax after tax in this last session.

There were several tax bills proposed.

One of those, was very worrisome to people.

And that is raising the the cap on your property tax from 1% a year to 3% a year.

We're taxing retired folks on single income, fixed incomes, out of their homes.

And and if we're talking about keeping people in homes and homelessness and, and affordable rent and affordable, payments, that's one of the things that we can do to keep people in their homes.

And that's going to be one of my goals.

Also.

Nice segue into kind of a quality of life segment here.

When I think about traffic, public safety, homelessness, taxation, the lack of affordability, what is Washington getting wrong?

Big picture, do you think?

Why is our lived experience so bad in a place that should be so awesome?

Yeah, this is so awesome, isn't it?

I mean, what a what a beautiful state.

Well, we've we have followed the pathway of leaders who have had an agenda.

Again, it's an ideological agenda and it's it's forcing us into a a life that's, that's not real.

It's not reality.

So now, here we are after Bob Ferguson and others have had, proposed and successfully, initiated, an effort to legalize drugs on the street.

And Bob Ferguson supported this effort to legalize drugs in Washington state, including fentanyl.

So that's that is the the the what are the huge problems, that we're facing today?

Couple that with the defund the police effort.

Now we have fewer cops.

We have a higher drug problem.

Higher drug problem leads to more crime.

Those drug addicts are looking to steal, and and and rob so that they can get their money to buy their drugs.

They also start to fill up our medical facilities, our hospitals, our emergency rooms, and, and all of our other social services, providers are just overrun by this epidemic of drug addiction and crime.

And so that's all connected to the economy, too, by the way, because it also drives our businesses from our our cities across the country, across the state.

I'm used to working in the and the US Congress, but across the state.

It's driving businesses out of Seattle, out of Tacoma, out of Wenatchee, out of you name it.

I've talked to small business owners that have just shut down because they've got people, living in their door, in the front door of their business that shut down the business.

We lose jobs, we lose jobs, they become homeless, or they move out of state and the jobs move out of state, too.

It's a vicious cycle.

Last 15 seconds.

Dave.

Why do you want this?

Why do you.

Why do you want to deal with this?

Because I want to make a difference.

I'm 74 years old.

I was partially retired.

I jumped back into this because I think I'm the voice.

I have experience with criminal justice system.

14 years in Congress working in Central America on human trafficking.

Trafficking?

I bring a wealth of experience to the Washington state problems.

Dave Riker, thanks so much for joining us here on northwest now.

Yeah.

You're welcome.

Bob Ferguson has been the state's attorney general since 2013 and points to a long list of laudable legal wins, including large judgments relating to the opioid crisis, the recovery of most of the stolen unemployment insurance money, major campaign finance judgments against lobbyists, and legal moves to clean up Hanford, curb retail theft, and clear the rape kit backlog.

Bob, thanks so much for coming in northwest now.

Great to have a conversation with you about, you know, your your bid for the governorship here in the state of Washington.

Dave Reichert says he is not going to be a threat to women's reproductive rights.

You say we shouldn't take him at his word on that.

Fair enough.

Dave Reichert said, when you say we're going to be a tough on crime governorship, you're going to be tough on crime.

He says, we can't take you at your word.

Also.

Fair enough.

So with that said, persuade the Washington State voter that you are now Bob Ferguson, the tough on crime governor.

Well, first, let's start with the issue of choice, which you raise.

So you have to take the right words.

Look at his record.

He spent 14 years in Congress, and while he's in Congress, he voted three times for nationwide abortion bans that criminalize doctors.

He voted multiple times to defund Planned Parenthood.

So you have to look at his words and just look at his record, which is frankly, alarming, for reproductive freedom here in Washington state in terms of public safety.

I welcome a public safety debate with tape record.

I'm proud of my work as attorney general with my criminal justice team, which, as you know, if somebody commits a crime, my office does not have the jurisdiction to file charges.

Somebody breaks into your car.

That's your local prosecutor.

The AG's office does not have that authority.

But we have a criminal division that is available to local prosecutors.

If they can't bring a case, they have a conflict or lack the resources.

Well, guess what, Tom?

Prosecutors, both Democrats and Republicans all across our state, those that endorsed a record, those endorsed me have one thing in common.

They send their toughest cases to me and ask my team and my office to handle their most difficult cases that they can't bring.

Why?

They know we're going to hold talks accountable when they know we'll stand up for victims.

So.

So I understand they've got a hard time with his campaign.

He had a disastrous primary.

He's trailing in the polls.

So I get that that's the way he talks.

But look, the results are very different.

Crime and public safety is one of the things that I would put into the quality of life bucket, along with homelessness, taxation, lack of affordability.

What is Washington getting wrong, Bob?

Why does our lived experience feel so bad in a place that I know you think too is so awesome.

Yeah.

So I agree on those issues of affordability on homelessness.

Look, Washington is facing serious challenges.

This is a part of my stump speech as I travel the state.

The list could go on.

We have an opioid epidemic.

Those issues are real.

And what I think Washingtonians want in the governor is someone who is willing to lean into taking on those challenges.

Someone who's a change agent, but also someone will defend their freedoms at the same time.

And that's what that's been my entire time in public service is changing the institutions where I've gone as an elected official.

And that certainly is not going to change when I'm elected governor.

I'm going to talk to you a little bit.

I'm probably the only host of our show is going to talk to you about the IRA.

We do an annual program on that.

And, just, you know, for clarity sake, I'm a member of the Washington Coalition for Open Government.

The attorney for that organization, Joan Mitchell.

I know you know, her, came out pretty strongly in an op ed in the Seattle Times.

Hammer and you pretty good on on disclosure and on timeliness of fulfilling records, on using outdated technology to to fulfill those records in addition to the other things that are happening in the state, not necessarily under your purview, but still kind of under your watch.

When it came to redistricting and the countless PRA violations being paid by cities and counties.

All across the state of Washington.

So convince me, I guess, that you support transparency and the principles of the PRA.

And I think the first question you got to answer on that is, is there such a thing, Bobby, in the law as legislative privilege?

So a lot to unpack with that.

That question.

So number one, I don't have to convince you.

It's I think state records got to the convincing.

Look, the governor has something called an executive privilege, where the governor can withhold documents from the public.

I have pledge as governor to waive that executive privilege to make all those documents privileged.

Guess what?

My opponent, Dave Record.

I trust you've asked him the specific question that Dave Reichert has not promised him.

He says there's situations where the governor should hide those documents from the public.

So there is a very clear contrast.

Number two, when the legislature tried to hide behind a legislative privilege.

I'm the attorney for the state.

Normally I have to represent that state no matter what they're going to do.

In that case, I did not.

The legislature hired their own counsel.

We actually filed briefs in opposition to the state legislature saying they needed to disclose those records and prevailed in that litigation.

So time after time after time.

Now, look on your point of that one individual attorney, I get the fact that lots of attorneys filed lawsuits against the state.

You know, she's one of them.

They're not happy.

My job is defend the state and defend clients.

Sometimes those clients are following law, sometimes they're not.

But that's our duty.

And I think every Washingtonian, regardless of Party Express, expects the attorney general to do their duty of defending the state.

That's basics.

I understand that some attorneys are unhappy with with the state and, and sometimes they'll express that, but it's pretty clear where the contrast is in this race.

Safe to assume, then, am I making the right assumption?

You know, critique me?

Am I hearing right in saying that if a bill came up, to to put express legislative privilege, the idea that to modify the PRA, you wouldn't sign it?

Look, I've been very clear in my in my read the briefs that we file to the courts.

Right.

Read the briefs that we filed the court.

And look at the contrast with me and Dave Reichert on the privilege I control as governor, which is the executive privilege again.

I would waive that.

I'd made that clear.

Tape record says exactly the opposite.

So I'm glad you brought this up, because there's a very clear contrast on transparency between me and Dave Riker.

The PR I would put is one of those things.

I would kind of put in a little bit of the libertarian bucket.

There is definitely a little bit of a libertarian streak in Washington state voters, and has been over a long period of time.

And there's a couple of other things that maybe go into that bucket as well.

Income tax and Washington's initiative process.

Dan Evans passed away recently.

He supported that income tax.

Do you support the idea of an income tax in Washington?

No.

Although I will say I deeply respect Dan Evans and proud that my parents hosted one of his first, coffees at their home when he was first running for governor.

So my parents were proud.

Dan Evans, Republicans.

But no, I believe in prioritizing our budget, working with the resources we have.

That's what I've done as attorney general was proud.

The Tri-City Herald, when they wrote about my office in my budget, they said Ferguson does something unusual.

He runs his office like a budget.

What?

I'm sorry.

You'd like a business.

And that's the way I run the AG's office.

That's the way I run the governor's office as well.

The other thing that kind of goes into that libertarian piece, a little bit, is the state's initiative process.

You know, lots of criticism of, let's go, Washington on the progressive side.

How do you feel about the initiative processes itself?

Does it need to be eliminated or modified, or do you or do you think it's a good tool?

Washington voters have.

So great question.

So Trenton is relatively short.

Washington, of course, has a strong populist tradition.

Our initiative process is a good example that we've had that for many, many years.

And I understand that sometimes folks on the left or the right can be frustrated with the initiative process.

I get that for reasons that are probably obvious, but I will say that from my standpoint, while no system is perfect from my standpoint.

The idea that people can express their thoughts directly to the people, right?

They can go directly to the people that public records act.

You talk about a result of an initiative, right?

Going to the people, reforming our campaign finance system, reforming the way we do handle public records.

That's the result of the people using the initiative process.

So of course it has some warts.

Of course it has some flaws.

But overall, I like the initiative, process and respect it and think it's a benefit in Washington state.

Talk a little bit, swinging back to public safety here, because I think that's one of the things people really want to hear about your idea for a $100 million fund to attract new police officers.

I like the idea of attracting new police officers.

100 mil.

That's that's a that's a lot of money.

Well, I think the budget should reflect the priorities facing a state.

And we start this conversation by outlining what some of the most pressing issues are in the state.

And public safety was one of them.

And so from my standpoint as a governor, the budget should reflect the challenges we're facing.

And we have a big challenge in our state with public safety.

And the specific statistic that alarms me is Washington state ranks last, last per capita, a number of law enforcement officers we have.

And look, we can have a long conversation about where we should rank to be first and fifth.

Who knows?

Right.

But I think we can all agree 50th is not where we want to be, but that needs a change.

And what we need is more local jurisdictions who really do hiring need more resources for hiring bonuses or increased salaries to attract more law enforcement.

That's why public safety was my first plan.

I put on my website, and that's why I've got that specific proposal to address that issue.

Another issue I want folks to hear from, from you.

And this has been discussed in the debate, school choice.

Why so concerned?

Are we so afraid of school choice?

Parents want to go to successful schools.

And, you know, we we got some problems.

Well, to be clear, what we're talking about is parents taking, right public dollars, tax dollars out of our public schools.

This is what Dave Reichert wants to let them send those to unaccountable private schools that would gut our public school system.

So Dave Riker and I have a diametrically opposite perspective.

I think we should be investing more in our public schools.

K through 12 education funding in the state legislature has gone down in recent years as a percentage of our budget that needs to go back up.

Why we have needs of special education, mental health in the classroom, school construction, you name it.

So he and I are very different.

He wants to allow folks to take public dollars, tax dollars and send in private schools.

I think that's exactly the wrong approach.

We need to be investing in our public schools and making them even stronger.

Another one that that that I'm sure you probably get asked when you're handshaking around before or after an event.

In terms of how to answer this, and in one form or another, it probably sounds something about like this, isn't it time for new ideas?

We've had four decades of Democratic dominance in Washington state.

What's wrong with with some new ideas?

New ideas are great.

In fact, as attorney general, I have proposed legislation.

They haven't signed in law 49 times.

Guess what?

Almost all of those bills have in common, Tom.

Bipartisan 2 or 3 bills or party line votes, the other 46 bipartisan.

The fact the prime sponsor of many of those bills were Republicans.

I specifically reached out to Republicans to work with them on getting legislation passed to improve public safety, improve consumer protection.

So I believe in working across the aisle.

Number two, I think we need someone who is a change agent has that mentality.

When I first ran for office, I ran against a 20 year who was a Democrat.

That's not the easy way in.

I had no Democrat support.

I ran, I won.

I was the only Democrat to support reducing the size of the King County Council itself.

From 13 members down to nine, I actually reduce the number of politicians.

Guess what?

My district got eliminated, I was punished, I had to run again, I won again.

But my point being, throughout my life, I'm willing to take on the status quo.

I've taken on presence of my own party in court.

Presidents Biden and Obama, and beat them in court.

What the people want.

It's less about the party label and more about the mentality of change in government.

And that's what I deliver in this, in this campaign.

Last 30s and I'll let you go.

And I know this is a lot for 30s, but try your best.

What's one big misunderstanding about Bob Ferguson?

You wish you could clear up?

Oh, I'm not sure if there's a misunderstanding.

I think my record has been super clear.

That, I'm a change agent.

Work in a bipartisan fashion as attorney general.

The one thing I will emphasize is I'm the only candidate running who rejects all campaign donations from large corporations and corporate tax to People Power campaign focused on people, not big corporations.

And that's a big contrast in this race.

Bob Ferguson, thanks so much for coming in northwest now.

Thank you.

Tom.

It would be improper to conflate single party rule with bad governance, but it is safe to say that good governance is best served by at least having credible opposition candidates available.

The bottom line for the first time in eight years, Dave Reichert, is that GOP candidate when it comes to the governor's office and no matter who you're voting for, our democracy is just a little better for it this time around.

I hope this program got you thinking and talking.

You can find this program on the web kbtc,org.

Stream it through the PBS app or listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

That's going to do it for this edition of northwest.

Now until next time, I'm Tom Layson.

Thanks for watching.

You.