Northwest now is supported in part by viewers like you.

Thank you.

For decades, the excessive cost of college has been a drain on American economic success.

And productivity.

Strategies have been slow in coming.

But there's a good idea that might combine the best of actually learning how to do something useful and getting the four year degree to go along with it.

Baccalaureate degrees in the states, community and technical colleges is the discussion.

Next on northwest?

Now?

You.

For several years now, the state's community and technical colleges have been rolling out bachelor's programs to reduce costs and merge hands on training with academic credentials, all with the idea of meeting employer demand for people who can do an existing job and then grow into the next one.

There are millions of open jobs out there, all looking for usable skills that provide living wages for families, and the research shows that technical college educations have one of the best so-called recovery rates out there, meaning the wages make sense in relation to what was paid to go to school.

Steve Higgins now with more on getting a bachelor's degree through the Community and Technical College system.

Blackberries fight back Derrick thousand volunteers spent a cold November Saturday playing in the dirt.

Yeah, it turned out nicely.

Removing invasive plants.

It's an outdoor learning lab across the street from Clover Park Technical College sits more than 100 acres of greenspace called the Natural Resources Laboratory and Research Park at Flat Creek.

This is where students get hands on training, learn about habitat restoration.

They learn how to identify plants.

Yeah.

Alternate here.

Students take what they learn in the classroom and apply those skills directly in the field.

We are very, very fortunate that there was the foresight by previous college administrations to to know the value of this property, the community here at Clover Park.

Let me pursue something that I otherwise just wouldn't have access to.

Jay Hart first came to Clover Park seeking an environmental sciences and technology associate's degree, but his education pathway changed when last year, Clover Park began offering a Bachelor of Applied Science and Environmental Sciences degree.

Hart says earning a bachelors at Clover Park includes a learning environment like nowhere else.

Because of the smaller class sizes.

We got the attention from the professors, but we also got to support each other as students going through the same program.

I don't know if I would have gotten out of the larger university.

It's not just environmental sciences.

Clover Park offers multiple bachelor's degrees from interior design, cybersecurity, computer science, and more, all designed to move graduates into higher paying roles or new positions.

Our bachelor's programs are actually designed for working adults.

What began in 2005 as a pilot project.

Lawmakers and educators expanded CCP programs statewide in 2010.

Now, the community college baccalaureate Association reports students can choose a bachelor's from nearly 150 programs offered from campuses across Washington.

And according to a brief from think tank New America, CCP program graduates in Washington are more diverse than those graduating from similar programs at four year institutions.

Illustrating the KBS attempt to serve minority populations, I had established community here from heart.

Earning a bachelor's degree at Clover Park means staying close to mentors and hopefully applying the skills to serve his own community.

After graduation, it's giving us options and it's forming connections with where you start.

I don't need to go to a bigger university to start forming those connections, because I have founded them here in Pierce County.

Steve Givens, northwest now.

In the interest of transparency, let me state that Bates Technical College is the licensee for public television, and also that northwest now chose to do this program because of its importance.

Joining us now are Bates Technical College vice president of instruction Johnny, who and Travis Smith, an instructor in the Bachelor of Applied Science in public Safety Administration program here at Bates Technical College.

You know, it seems like a school should just be able to get this idea, you know, like, have a meeting and, like, hey, I have a great idea.

Let's start offering bachelor's degrees.

But you really can't do that.

Talk about how that decision is made and what the process is before you're finally kind of anointed.

With a bachelor's degree program.

Right.

Thank you.

Tom, thank you so much, for your interest in this important topic.

So, yes, we, are in the process of implementing our first bachelor's degree at Bates Technical College, our bachelors of applied science and Public Safety Administration.

Travis, here is our inaugural faculty member for the program.

And so getting a bachelor's degree, approved at a community technical college, does require a process.

It involves getting approved by our, local advisory committee with industry partners.

It involves, looking at the market data to make sure that there's a need for the degree, as well as a statewide approval process with the state board of for Community and Technical Colleges.

And then finally, it also requires approval by our accrediting body, the Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities.

So it is a fairly lengthy process.

And so for our first bachelor's degree, it, it it took, you know, almost two years to get it fully approved from start to finish.

Yeah.

I was going to ask you that and why I've got you here for a second.

Follow up on that.

If you take a look statewide at the community and technical colleges, across the state, there's there is quite a few bachelor's degrees being offered now.

Right.

Talk a little bit about the scope of that and what some of the choices are.

Yeah, absolutely.

So with this approval of our bachelor's of applied science, in public safety administration, Bates Technical College, became the last community in technical college in Washington state to be able to offer a bachelor's degree.

And I would say, always the best, save the best for last.

And so, and so the bachelor's degree is offered in our community technical college system are applied in nature.

And as you mentioned at the beginning, these are workforce degrees.

They serve the, the needs of our, our communities.

But specifically our workforce partners and that and in terms of variety.

So ours is very much focused on public safety, making sure that, our communities are safe and providing a pathway for leaders, to provide those, advancement opportunities.

But in terms of degrees across the state, they, you know, range quite varied anywhere from, public safety to health care to it.

We'll be offering, we're in the process of, getting our second bachelor's degree approved in it project management.

Okay.

And so in terms of wide range, there's a wide variety of different workforce degrees at the bachelor's level across our community and technical colleges.

Travis will jump into some of the killer app pieces about this in a few minutes.

But I wanted to talk to you about the process as well.

Just like the the the institution has to go through this process to get it approved.

Proved demand.

You can't just say, hey, I've got an idea about a bunch of stuff I want to teach.

There's going to have to be a curriculum, and you're almost kind of standing for inspection to some degree, I would guess to, to say, hey, this is our this is the, the books we're using.

Here's all the materials.

Talk a little bit about that process.

And over that two years, what it took to get ready to teach this.

Right.

So if I may like the, the time to get ready for this actually has been going on the entire time of my career, the last 30 years.

This program is reaching out to public safety, which is a very broad subject.

Cybersecurity, law enforcement, fire, public health, disaster response, is just the tip of the iceberg.

And, you know, my background is fairly varied, which, I'll talk a little bit later, but, I've, I've got a master's degree in emergency management.

But that's just, again, the tip to get in.

Right.

And then I've been working for the last several months selecting those textbooks and meeting with an advisory committee.

Right, weekly to to determine that and find something specific.

You know, these textbooks that are broad in scope to to, Yeah.

Think about all those things.

Yeah.

And to kind of validate that curriculum and show that the curriculum I know and and being on a curriculum committee that curriculum, you have to demonstrate that it supports the goals, right, of the program.

And again, that's that doesn't just come out of a, something you buy at Costco.

You got to know you got to build that.

It's been a long, long, long road.

And it's not just myself.

It's been a whole committee that's been working on that.

Yeah.

Johnny talk a little bit about the politics of resistance.

And I'm not necessarily saying the supply debates or, or particularly, but you know I have read and I got the feeling that there's sometimes some of the four year schools maybe aren't super happy about this in some ways.

But, you know, if you look at some of the facts that there aren't enough MBAs being produced anyway.

Right?

And a lot of the students that that Bates addresses, that that addressable universe aren't necessarily going to UW or wazoo.

It opens it up to this new group of people.

So talk a little bit about, you know, why do you think there was resistance and why do you think ultimately it's probably going to be okay.

Yeah.

And actually, you know, I go back to, the the mission of Bates Technical College and that is preparing our students for the workforce.

Our job is to prepare students so that they are ready for, for jobs, whether they're current careers or whether in this public safety degree, many of the students, already have jobs and looking providing them opportunities for, you know, getting, developing and obtaining more skills so that they can become even better or provide them opportunities for other, opportunities.

So, you know, I would say the focus of our bachelor's degrees and bachelors of applied science programs across the state, at the community and technical colleges really is to provide students that workforce training.

And so I would say that is, what kind of separates the degrees that we offer compared to, some of the four year universities and the other piece time that I want to mention, you know, you know, the community technical college system has been offering bachelor's degrees for about a decade now.

Okay.

So, I would say the resistance, based off of kind of the feedback I've gotten from my colleagues, hasn't really happened recently at the four year level, getting used to the idea.

And so I think and I would say Washington State, nationally has been a leader, in terms of bachelor's degrees at the community and technical colleges.

You know, I know that I talk to my colleagues, in other states, who work at community technical colleges, many of them aren't able to offer bachelor's degrees.

And I'm very proud, as, representative Washington state, that that is not an issue in our in our state, we have great support from, our community partners.

We have great support from, the state legislatures, to be able to provide us this opportunity to educate, the workforce.

So, I would say we have had, a lot of support for bachelor's degree.

Yeah.

Talk a little bit now about what I kind of call the killer app, which is combining the hands on piece with the academic piece.

There aren't many degrees that I've looked at when I spin through, the community technical colleges that have theories in the title or studies in the title.

I mean, you are learning to do things that are practical level.

There's a it's such a great combination between hands on and, having the academic background to be able to matriculate in your career.

Travis, I wanted to talk to you about that specifically.

You know, you deal a lot, and have some background in law enforcement and, you know, working the streets is great.

It helps you to understand how to be a good cop, but I think it also helps you to understand, to be a great administrator.

But if you can't sit for the test, right, you're locked out.

So talk a little bit about that and what it opens up.

And talk about that killer app idea.

Yeah.

So my, my main, career, experience is with the fire department.

I but like I said, I have a very broad, and that that killer app for, for me, it started when I first started at a high school and, and developed a, a love of service from, from my instructors there.

And then that launched me to the military, where I spent some time as a combat medic, and then eventually the fire department again as a medic.

And then I broke through the ranks into every specialty that we offer.

And then that ultimately led to tactical medicine with the, the Swat team in our community.

And then and then as a reserve, police officer, again, experiencing all these things.

And it led me to then, getting a disaster response.

I ran an aid station down in Haiti for a while and then went to Romania for another, humanitarian mission.

Then I spent several years, about back and forth with Israel, working with their fire department.

So I've got a pretty broad, experience level.

But that that just is just that.

Right?

It it's the tactile, the hands on experience.

But then I needed to to get the, the academic side, and they have to be married together.

Right.

So really be an effective administrator, which, you know, a leader in an organization, you have to know both.

You have to if you don't have the hands on experience, you're not going to be, credible with your with your troops.

But then again, if you don't have the administration side, you're not going to be an effective administrator.

And and pretty soon the wheels are going to fall off the.

Yeah, but you're one and done.

One and done.

Yeah.

Totally.

So you have to have that that combination.

And I think this program offers offers that that other side.

Before this program started you were talking a little bit too.

And you were kind of getting real.

And it's not even anything I considered.

But what happens to somebody who kind of does hit that dead end?

Not to everybody, but I mean, realizing after 15 years on the streets in and being a firefighter that you there is that there isn't an opportunity for you because you don't have that bachelor's degree.

That can be hard on people, right?

Completely.

Yeah.

So, a lot of public safety degrees or sorry, occupations don't necessarily need a degree to get into.

But once you're in there, you need often a degree.

And this is the trend moving forward to even be eligible to, to advance or promote right and or to be to be, less, competitive.

You definitely need that edge.

And so a lot of folks find themselves stuck maybe on the street, and, that can be hard, both psychologically, mentally or physically.

And the outcomes are not really great sometimes for that.

And so, yeah, jumping hose and lifting ladders at 50 or whatever because you couldn't test for the exam.

I mean, yeah, waking up at 2:00 in the morning and yeah, reality sets in when the bones get a little creaky.

Totally.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Good.

I, I think that's an important thing to to, to point out.

And I'm glad you, you discuss that.

Johnny, I have a phrase in here that's overused a lot.

I know, particularly in my industry, when you're buying equipment, all this stuff and and I'm sure in the community, in technical colleges think to future proofing everybody, everything.

Everything's got to be future proofed.

I will say, though, I think in this case it's true to some degree.

You are future proofing yourself because one of the things I love about the community technical college experience is you're learning how to do things that aren't necessarily going to be automated or done by a robot five years from now, and you can also grow.

You can start with one truck being an Hvac guy or whatever it is, and before you know it, now you've got two trucks going and you can be entrepreneurial.

There's so much I like about it.

But to talk about that future proofing thing where you may not have your hands on, you know, you may what you're training on now may not be here five years from now, but you know, you know, you can get there with the background, right?

I hope I'm expressing that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, it makes complete sense, Tom.

I think, for, for this degree, we actually thought about that quite a bit.

And, you know, one of the reasons why we focused on our first Bachelors of Applied Science degree in public safety administration, is, is so that it can be more future proofed in the sense that it is a cross-disciplinary degree, really emphasizing, cross collaborations across various fields like fire, like emergency management, like law enforcement, but also incorporating cyber security, it public health.

And, and, you know, especially the last couple of years, because of Covid, you know, really emphasizing the health piece in there.

And so having that interdisciplinary approach helps with the future proofing so that we are not stuck on this is a degree just in one particular field.

Yes.

And so and I think Travis is one particular piece of equipment.

He absolutely isn't necessarily, which can sometimes kind of be of a little bit of a trap to fall into as computerization.

And I know the technical college just try to keep up with it.

Right.

But I mean, it's things change.

So quickly.

This seems to prepare you for that rapid pace of change.

Right.

And then the curriculum is designed to have that.

It's built in that we are looking at emerging technologies.

Right.

So we are not saying we're only going to focus on one piece of equipment or one piece of technology.

Now, you know, we we want to design the curriculum, to be able to adapt to future technologies we may not even know about.

And so part of, you know, Travis, as background is to is to help, help with that.

Yeah.

And Travis, you know, I think emergency services and fire and police is a classic example that's never going to be outsourced.

No, we can't call another country to come over and do the thing.

That's that is hands on always will be.

As far as I'm concerned, I think, you know, maybe we are Blade Runner someday, but even then, we have cops.

Well, and to your point, like, not outsourcing it.

Outsourcing it, and but drawing from the people within our community specifically that serve that community.

Right.

The whether that's under resourced people or whether that's, you know, any socioeconomic walk of life, and that's critical to the, to the service of the public.

And that's something that, Bates has been phenomenal at, my opinion, is, connecting with those under-resourced students to help them, get through their, any, any struggles that they have to be successful in the program and allow them to stay in Pierce County completely, where they don't necessarily have to go somewhere else to get their skills or to apply their skills.

They can be right here.

Absolutely.

And we want, you know, there's a certain culture of this in Pierce County that if we can grow, you know, organically, it's it's better serve that community and can identify those, those, needs of said community that maybe aren't so obvious from somebody, from those other things.

And I want to echo that point, too.

That is one of the critical feedback that we got from our advisory committee that, there was a, a lack of training opportunities to serve our region, you know, many of the the feedback we got from the police chiefs or the fire chiefs, they say they have to go out of state to be able to find that training program.

And so to be able to have this program to serve our community again, aligns very well with our mission at the college.

I was looking at some research, that that came as a pleasant surprise to me that these baccalaureate programs in, community and technical colleges really impact the achievement gap.

Opening up a program to a whole different student population.

And research shows I'm reading directly here from it.

It's particularly powerful for underrepresented student groups, which is massive.

In a place like Pierce County as well.

Talk a little bit.

Why is that?

I want to say the easy answer is money, but but why do you think that it has that kind of an impact on something like the achievement gap?

Yeah.

And I would again go back to our mission community Technical College Mission Bates Technical College mission, and that is to serve our community, to provide opportunities for students who may not have had that opportunity elsewhere to, break down barriers.

And Travis has done a, a really great job to, look at the admissions process so that we are accounting for students as prior to learning to be able to incorporate that as part of their degree plan so that they can be on the right path.

And so, you know, Bates, you know, not just, you know, this program, but I think our programs overall does a really good job of accepting all students and that it is our goal.

It is our mission to be able to provide that, opportunity for economic mobility.

Yeah.

For our community.

Yeah.

And a lot of those programs, you know, you can get your certificates and matriculate to a four year program if, if you want to do so.

But the but the goal of a lot of the programs is to prepare you for that entry level job.

Travis, can you talk about this a little bit when I, when I hear your your pathway to how you got to where you are, you didn't do it all in one setting, like paying for a college degree, but you spent a lot of money traveling.

Yeah.

Like going you're going there.

Talk a little bit about the money piece.

Is the savings that a kid and I always say kid, but a young person or an adult who wants to come in and remediate, that seems substantial.

Talk a little bit about.

So, a couple things.

I also echo John's point, about breaking down barriers.

Some of those things that the college has done is, you know, they're they're very flexible, with the, when, when students can admit, you know, what quarter they can commit.

It's not really dogmatic.

They there's flexibility with it's a hybrid program.

So those that need a remote in because are coming off shift or or whatnot.

So there's a lot of flexibility there.

Yeah.

To then allow to, you know, open the doors for more people to come in.

As far as, you know, the benefit of their tuition and time to me were always the big investments.

You know, traveling overseas is is a big commitment of time.

And regardless of who's paying for it.

And, and I think there is a perfect balance between that because, you're paying for, tuition at a technical college level, you know, as opposed to university or private school.

Yeah, yeah.

And, and then the time, you know, this program is a six quarter long program to, to get your bachelor's degree.

So I think the value is definitely there.

And the value is not also just the fact that you can get it done within that six quarter period of time, but it actually will have some meaning, right?

It's not underwater basket weaving.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah.

Like I said, no theories, no studies.

You can you can, you know, how to do something.

Yeah.

And it's not only to, to create, you know, leaders in the industry of public safety, but it's also, people that are trying to get into the industry.

It's a valuable degree.

It's because it's a very, competitive space to get into.

Yeah.

Fire services are again, that's my primary background.

You're talking thousands of people you're testing with what separates, you know, this 20 year old individual from another 20 year old individual, his bachelor's degree.

Yeah.

Totally.

Right.

And they show a commitment to public service and and wanting to to be there.

And yeah, just given that the step ahead.

Yeah.

Johnny last question for you.

And that is I want to talk to you about the money too, because chances are we're talking to grandparents and parents, here on this program.

You know, there's been a lot of pushback, in recent years looking at the cost of college and, oh, my gosh, going into all this debt.

And what's the real payoff?

And where does that payoff point come?

You know, the return ratio for technical college education is really good.

Does this reinforce that idea.

Talk a little bit about stretching the dollar here.

The the tuition dollar.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

No.

And Travis kind of mentioned this too.

You know, we are a state agency and we offer in-state tuition, at the community and technical college, price points.

And so again, our degrees lead to jobs.

And so the, and I would say not every college can say that, you know, I, you know, I, I think it's it's pretty clear that, you know, if you look at the track record at Bates, you know, our students get jobs.

And so the value of the degree is basically shown by the, the jobs that the students get.

And so, and this, this reinforces that, again, it's the pathway to to jobs is very clear with this bachelor's degree.

It's a workforce degree.

And in a in the emerging field.

And so I think it's it's it's obvious and living wage and family wage jobs to a good point.

All right guys, thanks so much for coming to northwest now.

Great conversation.

And I, I'm hoping that parents and grandparents look into this on behalf of the young ones in their lives.

Thank you.

Thank you, Tom.

And, just want to make sure that, people know we're enrolling our, for our first cohort winter quarter.

And, we have a website up.

Bates tech edu.

Okay.

And, if you will hopefully encourage, your viewers to, to check it out.

Great.

Thanks, guys.

Thank you.

Tom.

There is great value in a well-conceived college degree, but like everything else, price matters.

The bottom line merging practical skills with deeper academics is a killer combination that's hard to beat, especially at a good price.

Parents and grandparents take notice and maybe share some of these ideas with the young people in your life.

I hope this program got you thinking and talking.

You can find this program on the web at kbtc.org.

Stream it through the PBS app or listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

That's going to do it for this edition of northwest.

Now, until next time, I'm Tom Laysen.

Thanks for watching You.