♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

WE'LL SIT DOWN FOR A CONVERSATION WITH ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL KRIS MAYES.

>>> AND A RARE FIND DISCOVERED WITHIN A RARE BOOK AT THE PHOENIX LIBRARY.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE NEXT ON ARIZONA.

.

>>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

ATTORNEY GENERAL KRIS MAYES IS THE STATE'S CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER AND SHE IS CURRENTLY DEALING WITH A NUMBER OF LAW ENFORCEMENT ISSUES, RANGING FROM INVESTIGATION INTO STATE CONTRACTOR WITH TIES TO THE GOVERNOR TO QUESTIONS OVER JUST WHO HAS THE AUTHORITY TO REQUEST EXECUTION WARRANTS IN THE STATE?

JOINING US NOW IS ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL KRIS MAYES.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> YOU, TOO, TED.

TED: APPRECIATE IT.

A LOT GOING ON, A BUSY PERSON.

THANKS FOR MAKING TIME.

>> ALWAYS.

TED: THIS INCLUDES THE $115 MILLION FROM THE OPIOID SETTLEMENT, GOING TO PRISONS, YOU NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT, YOU FILED SUIT ABOUT THIS.

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO THE STATE OF ARIZONA, AND I UNFORTUNATELY HAD TO SUE ESSENTIALLY THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE TO TRY TO STOP THEM FROM SWEEPING $115 MILLION OF THE STATE'S OPIOID SETTLEMENT FUNDS WHICH ARE SUPPOSED TO GO TO HELP US ADDRESS THE OPIOID AND FENTANYL CRISIS TO PREVENT FUTURE ADDICTION, TO TREAT FOLKS TO BUY NALOXONE AND NARCAN AND TO SAVE LIVES, SO UNFORTUNATELY THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE DECIDED DURING THIS BUDGET PROCESS TO, WHAT I THINK IS ESSENTIALLY BACKFILL THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS'S BUDGET WITH THIS OPIOID MONEY.

I DON'T THINK IT'S PROPER USE OF OPIOID FUNDS.

I DISAGREED WITH THEM ABOUT THAT.

IT WAS CLEAR FROM THEIR STATEMENTS THAT THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE DOING DURING THE BUDGET PROCESS, AND SO I SUED TO TRY TO STOP THE SWEEP.

I WAS NOT SUCCESSFUL AS YOU KNOW.

TED: INDEED, YOU BASICALLY ARGUED THAT THIS KIND OF SWEEP, THIS KIND OF USE OF THE MONEY BREAKS THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT.

HOW SO?

>> WELL, I THINK POTENTIALLY IT PUTS AT RISK THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT BECAUSE THE SETTLEMENTS THAT WE, THE STATE OF ARIZONA, AND FRANKLY PRIMARILY WAS UNDER MY PREDECESSOR MARK BRNOVICH IS YOU KNOW I OFTEN DON'T SAY AWESOME THINGS ABOUT HIM.

I'M NOT A BIG FAN, BUT ONE THING I WOULD SAY IS HE NEGOTIATED SOME SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS WITH THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES, THINK JOHNSON & JOHNSON, CVS, THE PHARMACIES, THE MANUFACTURERS, THE DISTRIBUTORS.

AND THOSE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS THAT WERE APPROVED BY I THINK SIX OR SEVEN DIFFERENT JUDGES HERE IN ARIZONA SAID THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHOEVER THE AG IS FOR THE NEXT 18 YEARS, SHALL DIRECT THE USE OF THESE EXPENDITURES OF THE OPIOID FUNDS.

THE LEGISLATURE MAY APPROPRIATE, BUT THE AG IS SUPPOSED TO PUT FORWARD AN EXPENDITURE PLAN.

I DID NOT PUT FORWARD AN EXPENDITURE PLAN THAT INCLUDED 115 MILLION OF THE MONEY GOING TO THE PRISON SYSTEM.

>> THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, IN SUSPECT THE JUDGE, THE JUDGE SAID IT WAS CLEAR, THAT IT WAS CLEAR THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAD THE RESPONSIBILITY AS FAR AS APPROPRIATING THESE FUNDS.

HOW DO WE SQUARE THAT?

>> I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE I THINK HE WAS WRONG, AND IT'S UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE ACTUALLY HE HAD ONE OF THE CONSENT DECREES.

ONE OF THE CASES WAS HIT, SO IT WAS A LITTLE CONFUSING.

HE SIGNED OFF ON ONE OF THE CONSENT DECREES THAT STATED THAT THE AG SHALL DIRECT USE OF THE FUNDS.

HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET BACK TO NORMALCY NEXT YEAR, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GOING TO GET THERE, BUT I FELT THAT IT WAS MY DUTY TO PROTECT ARIZONANS, TO FIGHT FOR ARIZONANS, BUT THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR COULD HAVE USED THE RAINY DAY FUND TO FILL THEIR BUDGET GAP.

THEY COULD HAVE TRIED TO REIN IN THE OUT-OF-CONTROL VOUCHER PROGRAM, DRAINING OUR BUDGET OF A BILLION DOLLARS.

THEY COULD HAVE DEALT WITH THE FLAT TAX WHICH IS MAKING RICH PEOPLE RICHER, BUT INSTEAD, THEY USED THE OPIOID FUNDS, WHICH ARE SUPPOSED TO SAVE ARIZONANS' LIVES TO BACKFILL THE BUDGET GAP.

>> THE ARGUMENT ON THE OTHER SIDE IS THEY WILL BE USED TO SAVE THESE PARTICULAR ARIZONANS WHO ARE INCARCERATED.

WAS THERE AN OKAY AMOUNT FOR YOU TO GO THERE?

>> YEAH.

TED: 115 MILLION NOW.

145 IS THE TOTAL DEAL.

WHAT WOULD WORK FOR YOU?

>> I WAS PROPOSING $10 MILLION.

IT WAS OUR UNDERSTANDING THE GOVERNOR WAS FINE WITH THAT, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, IN THE 11th HOUR OF THE BUDGET PROCESS WHEN THEY WERE DESPERATE TO GET A BUDGET TOGETHER, THE SENATE PRESIDENT AND THE GOVERNOR AND THE HOUSE SPEAKER CAME UP WITH 115 MILLION, AND I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER IS THIS IS ALMOST A THIRD OF ARIZONA'S TOTAL STATE SHARE OF THE OPIOID MONEY.

NOW COUNTIES AND CITIES GET THEIR OWN SHARE.

THEY GET A LITTLE BIT NORTH OF 50% OF THE OPIOID FUNDS, BUT THE STATE SHARE, THAT'S A BIG PORTION OF THE STATE'S SHARE THAT NOW IS JUST GOING DIRECTLY TO BACKFILL A BUDGET OF THE PRISON SYSTEM, AND WE'RE NOT EVEN -- WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN SHOWN PROOF IT IS GOING TO BE USED FOR OPIOID-RELATED PURPOSES.

TED: HAVE YOU HEARD FROM THE GOVERNOR?

HAVE YOU HEARD FROM LEGISLATURE LEADERS?

>> YEAH, WE'VE BEEN IN CONVERSATIONS WITH THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

I WILL SAY THAT.

OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE A DISAGREEMENT HERE, AND WE LOST THAT COURT CASE.

I WILL NEVER, TED, STOP FIGHTING FOR THE PROPER USE OF THESE OPIOID FUNDS.

I'LL NEVER STOP FIGHTING FOR RURAL ARIZONA.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHO I THINK IS GOING TO LOSE OUT ON THIS.

MY EXPENDITURE PLAN HAD THIS MONEY SPREAD OUT ALL THROUGHOUT ARIZONA.

NOT JUST GOING TO OUR PRISON SYSTEM, BUT GOING TO PLACES LIKE MOHAVE COUNTY.

GOING THROUGHOUT ARIZONA.

WE DESPERATELY OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES NEED DETOX CENTERS.

WE NEED SCHOOL COUNSELORS WHO CAN TALK ABOUT THE FENTANYL CRISIS.

THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN SPREAD THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF ARIZONA.

UNFORTUNATELY IT WAS NOT.

TED: LAST POINT, AND HE CALLED IT A SLAP IN THE FACE FOR RURAL ARIZONA.

DOES THIS SET A PRECEDENT AS FAR AS THESE KINDS OF SETTLEMENTS ARE CONCERNED?

>> WHAT I WORRY ABOUT IS NEXT YEAR THE LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO COME IN AND JUST DO THE SAME THING ALL OVER AGAIN, THAT THEY'RE GOING TO SEE THIS POT OF MONEY THAT REALLY SHOULD BE USED FOR FIGHTING OUR FENTANYL CRISIS, AND THEY'RE GOING TO USE IT TO BACKFILL A BUDGET DEFICIT.

I'M WORRIED ABOUT IT GOING FORWARD.

TED: YOU AND THE MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY HAVE A DIFFERENT IDEA WHO CAN REQUEST EXECUTION WARRANTS.

WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?

SHE SAYS SHE'S AN ATTORNEY, SHE'S WORKING ON BEHALF OF THE STATE.

YOU SAY IT'S ALL HER AND NOT YOU?

>> WELL, THAT'S THE WAY IT'S BEEN DONE FOR ABOUT 50 YEARS.

OUR RESEARCH SHOWS IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO HAS ISSUED A REQUEST FOR AN EXECUTION WARRANT TO THE ARIZONA SUPREME COURT.

NO COUNTY ATTORNEY HAS EVER TRIED TO DO THIS BEFORE, TED.

IT'S ACTUALLY, I USE THE WORD BIZARRE, YOU CAN IMAGINE THE CHAOS AND HAVOC THAT WOULD BE CREATED IF 15 COUNTY ATTORNEYS TRIED TO START ISSUING REQUESTS FOR WARRANTS.

THERE IS ALSO STATE LAW THAT SAYS THAT ONLY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SHALL REPRESENT THE STATE OF ARIZONA IN FRONT OF THE ARIZONA SUPREME COURT.

SO WE OBVIOUSLY DISAGREE WITH THE MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY.

I WOULD SAY THIS, IT'S RIDICULOUS GIVEN THE FACT THAT I HAVE SAID WE ARE GOING TO START ISSUING EXECUTION WARRANTS IN ESSENTIALLY JANUARY OR SHORTLY THEREAFTER ANYWAY.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SIX MONTHS AT THIS POINT.

TED: THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE SUSPENSION AS FAR AS CAPITAL PUNISHMENT IN ARIZONA, BECAUSE YOU WANT TO REVIEW THE PROCESS AND SEE.

IS THAT REVIEW OVER WITH?

WHOEVER IS LOOKING, SEEN WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE?

>> YEAH, I'M A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED IN THE AMOUNT OF TIME THIS INDEPENDENT REVIEW HAS TAKEN.

I DID JOIN WITH THE GOVERNOR IN CALLING FOR AN INDEPENDENT REVIEW OF THE DEATH PENALTY.

WE PUT THAT IN THE HANDS OF JUDGE DUNCAN.

I THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE DONE IN A YEAR, SO THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AT THE END OF 2020, ESSENTIALLY 2023.

IT WASN'T DONE, SO I'M -- I AM FEELING PRETTY ASSURED BY THE FACT THAT THE DIRECTOR OF THE PRISON SYSTEM, RYAN THORNELL SAYS HE'S OPERATIONALLY READY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT EXECUTIONS AND JUDGE DUNCAN HAS BEEN GIVING US MIDTERM REVIEW NOTES ON HIS INVESTIGATION.

TED: COUNTY ATTORNEY, THOUGH, SAYS THAT YOU ARE DRAGGING YOUR FEET, AND THUS IT IS JUSTICE DENIED.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND?

>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SIX MONTHS AT THIS POINT, TED.

SO I THINK THAT'S KIND OF SILLY, AND ALSO, AGAIN, IT'S A WASTE OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS TO TRY TO TAKE US TO THE ARIZONA SUPREME COURT.

TED: YOU AND THE COUNTY ATTORNEY ARE ALSO INVOLVED IN THIS INVESTIGATION REGARDING THIS GROUP HOME THAT HAS TIES TO THE GOVERNOR, TIES TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, OF WHICH YOU ARE A MEMBER.

SHE SAYS LET'S DO PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS.

I'VE GOT A RESPONSIBILITY, YOU'VE GOT A RESPONSIBILITY.

EVERYONE HAS GOT A RESPONSIBILITY HERE.

HOW MANY INVESTIGATIONS ARE WE GOING TO DO ON THIS THING?

>> AGAIN, I THINK A WASTE OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS ON HER PART.

SHE CAN DO THAT IF SHE WANTS TO, I DON'T THINK HER OFFICE IS VERY WELL SUITED TO DO THE INVESTIGATION.

I AS WELL AS SENATOR T.J. SHOPE REFERRED IT TO OUR OFFICE.

I IMMEDIATELY SAID WE WOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH THE INVESTIGATION OF THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION INVOLVING THE GOVERNOR, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO.

TED: DIDN'T HE ALSO ASK FOR RACHEL MITCHELL TO BE INVOLVED AS WELL?

>> YEAH, THAT WAS STRANGE.

HE DUAL REFERRED IT.

TED: GOT A DUAL INVESTIGATION NOW.

>> AGAIN, NOT A PROPER AND OPTIMAL USE OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS.

TED: WAS IT A PROPER AND OPTIMAL USE OF GETTING OUT THESE FUNDS, THE STATE CONTRACTOR SAYING 60% INCREASE AND NO OTHER GROUP SAW THE INCREASE, THERE IS A CONNECTION TO THE GOVERNOR, THE INAUGURAL FUND.

THERE IS A CONNECTION TO THE PARTY WITH THE PEOPLE DONATING AND TOP OF THE HEAP AS FAR AS RACE IS CONCERNED.

SMOKE?

FIRE?

WHAT HAVE WE GOT THERE?

>> I REALLY AM NOT GOING TO COMMENT ON THE INVESTIGATION.

AS I SAID, WE ARE DOING A REAL AND A SERIOUS INVESTIGATION INTO THIS MATTER.

SO I'M -- AS I DID WITH ANOTHER CASE THAT YOU'VE ASKED ME ABOUT A FEW TIMES, AND YOU'LL PROBABLY ASK ME AGAIN.

TED: STAND BY.

>> STAND BY.

I'M READY.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO DISCUSS IT.

WE'LL HAVE RESULTS.

WE WILL RELEASE THOSE TO THE PUBLIC, AND WE HAVE VERY PROFESSIONAL, VERY GOOD INVESTIGATORS INHOUSE AT THE AG'S OFFICE.

TED: TO THAT END, THOUGH, HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THOSE WHO SAY, MOSTLY REPUBLICANS NOW, SAYING THIS, YOU NEED TO RECUSE YOURSELF, THESE FOLKS DONATED TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, OF WHICH YOU ARE A MEMBER.

A CONFLICT OF DISTRICT.

GET OUT OF THE WAY.

LET THE ATTORNEY GENERAL 'S OFFICE, LET THEM TAKE OVER.

>> IF IT WERE UP TO ME TO INVESTIGATE ANY DEMOCRAT, I WOULDN'T DO ANY CASES THAT WE DO.

IT'S ABSURD.

TO SAY I CAN'T INVESTIGATE SOMEBODY JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE A DEMOCRAT OR A REPUBLICAN, YOU KNOW, I AM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND I RUN AN OFFICE OF A THOUSAND AMAZING, PROFESSIONAL, CAREER INVESTIGATORS AND LAWYERS, AND THEY'RE GOING TO DO A GOOD JOB, A SOLID JOB AND WE'LL RELEASE OUR RESULTS WHEN WE'RE DONE.

TED: AND I SAW ONE CRITICISM SAYING DCS IS A STATE AGENCY, YOU REPRESENT STATE AGENCIES, YOU GOT TO GET OUT OF THE WAY.

>> WE TOOK STEPS TO SCREEN DCS OFF.

WE TOLD DCS THEY NEEDED TO GET THEIR OWN ATTORNEYS, SO WE'RE NOT REPRESENTING THEM ON THIS MATTER, AND TOOK OTHER STEPS AND ESTABLISHED OTHER SCREENS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN DO THE INVESTIGATION.

TED: LAST QUESTION ON THIS, HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE DUPLICATION DOESN'T -- TWO INVESTIGATIONS HERE, SOLID INVESTIGATIONS, HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE YOU'RE NOT WALKING ALL OVER EACH OTHER?

>> WELL, THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

YOU KNOW, WE MAY.

SO FAIR HAVEN'T SEEN ANY EVIDENCE OF THAT.

WE'RE DOING OUR INVESTIGATION.

I THINK IT SOUNDS THAT THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IS RELYING ON THE AUDITOR GENERAL, SHE'S OUTSOURCED IT TO THE AUDITOR GENERAL.

THAT'S FINE.

I WOULD SUSPECT WE'LL BE DONE BEFORE THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IS BECAUSE OF THAT.

TED: ALL RIGHT, TIME FOR THE TRADITIONAL QUESTION, FAKE ELECTORS CASE.

EVERYONE'S PLEAED, WE GOT AUR ANSWER NOW.

ARE YOU EXPECTING PLEA OFFERS?

ARE YOU EXPECTING PLEA DEALS?

WHAT CAN WE LOOK FORWARD TO?

IS THIS A DARK HOLE FOR A WHILE UNTIL SOMETHING HAPPENS?

>> NUMBER ONE YES, I DO ANTICIPATE PLEA AGREEMENTS, AND SO I WOULD SAY WATCH THIS SPACE, AND YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A FANTASTIC AND VERY WELL-REGARDED CRIMINAL DIVISION CHIEF HANDLING THIS CASE, AND, YOU KNOW, THERE WILL BE MOTIONS THAT ARE FILED OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.

WE'LL BE READY FOR TRIAL IN OCTOBER.

WE DON'T REALLY THINK THAT THE TRIAL WILL HAPPEN IN OCTOBER BECAUSE OF ALL THE MOTIONS THAT ARE GOING TO BE FILED.

TED: DEFENDANTS COOPERATING SO FAR?

>> YOU KNOW, I REALLY DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT ON TELEVISION, SO YOU KNOW, AS I SAID, WE EXPECT PLEA AGREEMENTS.

TED: OKAY, AS YOU SAID, WATCH THIS SPACE.

THE CRITICS THOUGH, AND IT'S STILL OUT THERE, AND THEY'RE MOSTLY AGAIN REPUBLICANS AND A LOT OF THE FOLKS ARE RUNNING FOR OFFICE, MAGA, ELECTION DENIERS, THE WHOLE NINE YARDS HERE.

THEY'RE SAYING YOU ARE PARTICIPATING IN LAW FARE, YOU ARE GOING AFTER -- ALL THE FOLKS YOU ARE GOING AFTER, NO FRIENDS OF YOURS, SO THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

>> WELL, WE JUST TALKED ABOUT THAT INVESTIGATION I'M DOING INTO THE GOVERNOR.

SO I'M ALSO DOING AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE APACHE COUNTY ATTORNEY WHO IS A DEMOCRAT, SO I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT RECORD, THE RECORD SHOWS THAT WE FOLLOW THE LAW, WE FOLLOW THE FACTS WHERE THEY TAKE US, AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT LAW FARE MEANS.

THAT'S SORT OF ANOTHER FAKE TERM THAT SOMEONE MADE UP AND PUT ON TWITTER.

WE DO THESE INVESTIGATIONS REGARDLESS OF A PERSON'S POLITICAL AFFILIATION.

TED: BEFORE WE GO, GOT ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT HERE.

ABORTION IN ARIZONA.

1864, IT'S ADIOS, SOUNDS LIKE IT'S GONE HERE.

YOU SEEM TO HAVE ABORTION LAWS THAT ARE CONFUSING FOLKS.

WHAT'S THE CONFUSION?

WHAT ARE YOU TELLING THEM?

>> WE STILL ARE LIVING UNDER 15--WEEK ABORTION BAN WITH NO EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPE OR INCEST, TED.

I HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH 50 OR 60 DOCTORS, NURSES, PHARMACISTS AND CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICERS AT HOSPITALS WHO ARE ON A NIGHTLY BASIS DEALING WITH EMERGENCY PREGNANCY SITUATIONS AFTER 15 WEEKS, IN WHICH THE DOCTORS IN THE EMERGENCY ROOMS ARE LITERALLY HAVING TO CALL THEIR LAWYERS AND ASK THEM, AM I GOING TO GET PROSECUTED IF I TRY TO SAVE THIS WOMAN'S LIFE?

LITERALLY HAD A DOCTOR LOOK AT ME AND SAY GENERAL MAYES, WILL YOU PROSECUTE ME, OR HOW CLOSE TO DEATH DO I HAVE TO ALLOW A WOMAN TO GET BEFORE I CAN KNOW THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PROSECUTE ME?

BY THE WAY, I SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO PROSECUTE ANY DOCTOR OR NURSE UNDER THESE LAWS.

SO THERE IS EXCEPTION FOR THE LIFE, SAVING THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER AND FOR ENSURING THAT BODILY INJURY IS NOT DONE A WOMAN, AND SO WE'RE GOING TO ISSUE SOME GUIDANCE ON THAT ISSUE, TED, ON THURSDAY.

TED: ON THURSDAY.

>> THROUGH AN ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OPINION.

TED: VERY GOOD, ATTORNEY GENERAL MAYES.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US, APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION.

>> THANKS, TED, SAME.

.

TED: TWO ASU PROFESSORS WERE PART OF A GROUP THAT DISCOVERED AN EXTREMELY RARE FIND WITHIN THE PAGES AT THE BURTON BARR LIBRARY IN PHOENIX.

THE GROUP DISCOVERED READING NOTES WRITTEN BY THE REVERED 18th CENTURY POET JOHN MILTON.

AUTHOR OF THE EPIC POEM PARADISE LOST.

WE WELCOME THE TWO PROFESSORS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENGLISH.

THIS IS SOMETHING.

JOHN, WE'LL START WITH YOU.

LET'S REALLY START WITH YOU.

WHO IS JOHN MILTON?

>> HE'S THE SECOND BEST BRITISH POET AFTER SHAKESPEARE, THE SECOND MOST IMPORTANT AFTER SHAKESPEARE, AND HE'S PARTICULAR BUT HE'S DIFFERENT FROM SHAKESPEARE BECAUSE SHAKESPEARE DOESN'T GIVE HIMSELF AWAY VERY MUCH.

HE HOLDS HIMSELF BACK IN HIS WRITING.

MILTON LAYS IT ALL OUT, AND HE'S A VERY POLITICAL WRITER.

TED: DIDN'T KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT SHAKESPEARE, KNOW A LOT ABOUT MILTON, CORRECT?

>> YEAH, WE HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION AVAILABLE.

TED: BRANDY, AS FAR AS PARADISE LOST, FOR THAT TIME, 18th CENTURY, NOT 17th CENTURY, JUST AMAZING PIECE OF WORK THAT SEEMS TO HOLD UP AND WILL HOLD UP FOREVER?

>> YES, I AGREE.

I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS WHY IT DOES IS BECAUSE IT RETELLS THE STORY OF GENESIS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE CONNECT WITH THAT, AND THEY ENJOY READING SOMEONE ELSE'S VERSION OF THAT STORY.

TED: BRANDY, BURTON BARR LIBRARY, CENTRAL PHOENIX, A 1587 EDITION OF A BOOK SHAKESPEARE USED TO USE, ALONG THE LINES?

>> IT'S THE CHRONICLES THAT TELL THE HISTORY OF ENGLAND FROM BEGINNING OF TIME TO ELIZABETH I, THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND WHEN SHAKESPEARE WAS WRITING AND WHEN MILTON WAS BORN.

>> 1608.

>> 1608, BARELY OR JUST AFTER.

AND SO SHE -- SO THE CHRONICLE WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS USED BY A LOT OF DIFFERENT PLAYWRIGHTS TO TELL A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT STORIES AND USED BY PEOPLE TRYING TO MAKE POLITICAL ARGUMENTS OR THINK THROUGH PROBLEMS AND MILTON USED THIS BOOK.

TED: APPARENTLY, JONATHON, HE DID USE THIS BOOK, A 1587 EDITION OF A RARE BOOK.

HOW DOES BARR LIBRARY GET SUCH A THING?

>> THANKS TO THE GENEROSITY OF SOMEONE WHO OFFERED IT WHO RETIRED TO PHOENIX IN 1936.

A VERY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMAN WHO WORKED IN FINANCE AND SEVERAL MANUFACTURING COMPANIES ON THE EAST COAST, RETIRED TO PHOENIX AND COLLECTED BOOKS, COLLECTED BOOKS VERY, VERY ASTUTELY WELL.

WHEN HE DIED IN 1958, HE GAVE HIS WHOLE COLLECTION TO THE PEOPLE OF PHOENIX.

TED: AND BRANDY, IN THIS PARTICULAR BOOK, HOW DO YOU KNOW JOHN MILTON WAS SCRIBBLING IN THE MARGINS HERE?

>> IT'S A LOT OF LUCK BECAUSE WE HAPPEN TO HAVE INVITED THREE SCHOLARS OR FOUR SCHOLARS FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY.

TWO OF WHOM RECOGNIZED THE HANDWRITING, AND ONE OF WHOM, CLAIRE M. ELBORN IS AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT PENN STATE UNIVERSITY IS AN EXPERT ON HIS WRITING AND AARON PRATT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS CALLED HER OVER, SHE SAID SHE KNEW THIS WAS MILTON'S HANDWRITING BECAUSE SHE WORKED ON IT PREVIOUSLY.

TED: YEAH, WAS IT SHOCK, DISBELIEF, WAS IT YOU ARE PUTTING ME ON, PULLING ME LEG?

>> THERE WAS A LOT OF SHOCK.

PICTURE TAKING STUDY TO OTHER EXPERTS TO DOUBLE CHECK TO MAKE SURE THE INSTINCT WAS CORRECT.

TED: AND FROM READING ABOUT THIS, WAS IT THE LETTER E?

IS THAT WHAT IT WAS?

>> YEAH, MILTON'S HANDWRITING IS VERY DISTINCTIVE AND CHANGES IT HALFWAY THROUGH HIS LIFE.

HE GOES TO ITALY, A BIG TRIP FOR HIM, AND HE CLEARLY WAS INFLUENCED BY ITALIAN FASHIONS, SO HE STARTS ALTERING HIS Es TO MAKE THEM INTO MORE ITALIAN FASHION, WE CAN DATE THIS PRETTY PRECISELY TO 1639, 1638.

TED: THE SCHOLAR THAT ORIGINALLY FOUND THIS AND SAID, HEY, WAS THE SCHOLAR LOOKING FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> NO, THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF OUR GATHERING THE GROUP OF PEOPLE TOGETHER WAS TO JUST TAKE A LOOK AT COLLECTION AND SEE WHAT WAS THERE BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT 2500 BOOKS FROM ALL DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS, AND THERE'S A SUBSTANTIAL COLLECTION OF BOOKS THAT ARE FROM BEFORE 1680 AND SO THEY JUST WERE LOOKING THROUGH IT AND FOUND IT.

TED: I MEAN, IT RAISES THE QUESTION, ARE THERE OTHER BOOKS HERE WRITTEN BY OTHER FOLKS OF ANTIQUITY?

WHAT'S GOING ON?

>> A LOT OF THE BOOKS IN THE KNIGHT COLLECTION HAVE ANNOTATIONS IN THE MARGINS.

OTHER ANNOTATIONS BY FAMOUS PEOPLE, NOT AS GOOD AS THIS.

IT DOES HIGHLIGHT, THIS IS ONLY THE THIRD ENGLISH BOOK THAT WE KNOW ABOUT WITH MILTON'S HANDWRITING IN IT, BUT WE KNOW MILTON HAD A HUGE LIBRARY, WHICH WAS DISPERSED AFTER HE DIED.

THERE IS A CHANCE THERE ARE OTHER BOOKS OF MILTON IN PHOENIX.

TED: WITH THE GUY THAT CAME IN 1936, DO WE KNOW WHERE HE GOT THE BOOKS?

>> WE KNOW A BOOK DEALER IN HOLLYWOOD HE BOUGHT IT FROM.

TED: HOLLYWOOD?

WE GOT HOLLYWOOD AND PHOENIX, ARIZONA FOR JOHN MILTON HERE?

>> WELL, RICH PEOPLE BUY BOOKS AND FLY AROUND THE WORLD.

TED: I DID WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT, BRANDY, THIS IDEA OF PEOPLE THAT COLLECT, THIS IS KIND OF NEAT IN A WAY.

>> YEAH, PEOPLE RELEASE COLLECTING BOOKS AS A PART OF A LEGACY BECAUSE KNIGHT DIDN'T WANT THE COLLECTION TO BE SPLIT UP LIKE OTHER MAJOR COLLECTORS AFTER THEY PASS AWAY.

SOMETIMES THEIR FAMILIES WOULD SELL THE COPIES OFF, HE DECIDED TO GIVE IT TO THE PEOPLE OF PHOENIX, WHICH WAS REALLY SPECIAL, AND HE SORT OF MORE LIKE MAJOR COLLECTORS AND OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY LIKE AT HUNTINGTON OR AT THE FOLGER LIBRARY IN D.C., AND IT TELLS YOU IT'S FUN TO COLLECT BOOKS BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO FIND INSIDE.

TED: NO KIDDING.

IS THIS BOOK GOING TO STAY AT BURTON BARR LIBRARY OR HIGH TAIL IT SOMEWHERE ELSE?

>> AS PART OF THE BE QUEST AND AS I UNDERSTAND ARIZONA LAW, WON'T DO ANYTHING WITH IT.

HAS TO STAY.

TED: THE BOOK IS IN THE BIGTIME.

HAVE YOU GONE BACK AND LOOKED AT IT AGAIN?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

TED: WHAT DO YOU THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT?

>> IT'S REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE THERE'S A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT HANDWRITINGS AND BECAUSE I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON MILTON, I GOT FASCINATED BY A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSON WHO WAS WRITING IN BLUE PEN, WHO I ASSUMED IS WRITING IN THE 1940s.

I GOT REALLY FOCUSED ON THAT.

I WAS LIKE THAT IS REALLY OLD HANDWRITING, I WONDER WHO IT BELONGS TO?

IT TURNS OUT TO BE MILTON.

TED: CONGRATULATIONS TO BOTH OF AND YOU ENJOY THE CONVERSATION.

IT'S KIND OF NEAT, THE OLD BOOKS WAITING AROUND TO BE DISCOVERED.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.